"Young people have to learn that certain behaviours are not acceptable, like standing in groups and being intimidating, or gathering outside shops and off-licences."

Wow, I've heard it all now. When did standing in a group become unacceptable behaviour?
I undertand there is a need for something because some young people do make a hobby of intimidating people, however having these mosquito alarms is just like saying "everyone under 25 is a trouble maker".
Are the people backing these alarms going to say next that all people over 25'd behaviour is perfect?

If you read the article properly Laura it says "certain behaviours are not acceptable, like standing in groups AND being intimidating..."
It does not say that merely standing in groups is unacceptable.

I think what he meant was "scum" standing in groups, not normal people. People like Shami don't like certain groups being described as scum though - coz it is against their humanrites innit - so that is what he means. He doesn't mean people or children hanging around in groups - he means hooded scumbag lowlife chav hanging around, intimidating people and generally being the waste of space that they are.

just thought i'd clear that up for you.

anyway, it is not saying that everyone under 25 is a trouble maker, just that most (if not all) trouble makers that "hang about" in groups are under 25. If decent youngsters visit shops, and go in, shop and then leave, they won't be affected.

Lastly, Shami says, "what if this device only persecuted a religion rather than kids"? Well, what if 4x4 drivers were a religion. What if Ken charged Muslims 25 pounds a day to enter london??

I think what he meant was "scum" standing in groups, not normal people. People like Shami don't like certain groups being described as scum though - coz it is against their humanrites innit - so that is what he means. He doesn't mean people or children hanging around in groups - he means hooded scumbag lowlife chav hanging around, intimidating people and generally being the waste of space that they are.

just thought i'd clear that up for you.

anyway, it is not saying that everyone under 25 is a trouble maker, just that most (if not all) trouble makers that "hang about" in groups are under 25. If decent youngsters visit shops, and go in, shop and then leave, they won't be affected.

Lastly, Shami says, "what if this device only persecuted a religion rather than kids"? Well, what if 4x4 drivers were a religion. What if Ken charged Muslims 25 pounds a day to enter london??

Thanks Jack - but the Mosquito device can't differentiate between 'scum' and 'normal people'. It affects all under 25, regardless of whether they are behaving or not. So going to the shops, walking down the high street, waiting for a bus - if you're in range of the device and under 25 it affects you.

Just thought i'd clear that up for you.

lovely little bit of nonsensical irrelevant racism at the end.

McCluskey,

thanks for your comments. If you read what i said, i commented that if non scum children want to go into the shop, buy things and then leave, they won't be affected. It will only effect scum who hang around for hours on end outside shops intimidating people and costing the shop owners profits as people avoid their properties.

I think again you failed to understand what I was saying as I never said anything racist.

You will see that Shami Chakrabarti said that this mosquito device attacks only children. Imagine if it persecuted only those of a specific religion what an uproar there would be. Therefore, I said that Ken, by charging 4x4 drivers 25GBP a day to drive a 4x4 because of emissions even though the c charge is for congestion, is persecuting a group of people. But Shami is silent on this, because 4x4 drivers are something she is probably againt. so it is ok to charge them 25GBP to enter london. But what if Ken said all muslims, or jews or catholics had to pay 25gbp a day to enter. then there would be uproar.

the point is,.certain people are discriminated against. deal with it. or don't allow discrimination against anyone, including 4x4 drivers and families with people carriers.

My encounter with the Mosquito Alarm:

About a year or 2 ago, (during one of the holidays, mid day on a Wed or Thurs) I was in Borehamwood town center with my girl friend. We decided to go to Mac Donald’s to get some food before we went back to my house.

We walked in, and lined up at the counter, waiting to place are order when I suddenly felt VERY nauseous and light headed. I felt like I was going to black out so I had to leave the restaurant ASAP.

As we were leaving I looked up to hear the uncomfortable high frequency noise, which I now know to be the Mosquito Alarm. Once we were far enough away from the devise, I had to sit down for the effects to ware off (this took a few minutes). It didn’t seem to affect my girl friend at all, there was also no “gangs” hanging around outside. I never complained to Mac Donald’s or asked them to turn it off (there foods not that good).

Now let’s get a few things straight:

Mac Donald’s lost my business, I left without buying anything, and god only knows why such a deterrent was left on mid afternoon, during the holidays! The alarm is as bad as anti social youths as it gets rid of law abiding people and stops them from spending there money.

I wasn’t doing anything anti social! Both me and my girl friend are hardworking students who now attend the University of Hertfordshire, I’ve never gotten into trouble with the police so why did are day have to be ruined?!

This devise doesn’t discriminate, between good or bad people. From the ages of 16 to 25 can be affected, as far as I know most anti social teenagers are not aged 20 to 25 there younger! I study the science of sound in my degree and as far as I know peoples range of audible frequencies differs, so the age group that the devise works on could defiantly vary from teenagers to young adults!

Finally I would like know what could have happened, imagine lets say I was driving into the Mac Donald’s drive threw; maybe I would have crashed in the Mac Donald’s car park or worse the mini round about ( yes you could hear the alarm that far away, so don’t blame me when people start suing local business’s!)

This Devise is not safe; it too loud & effects too many innocent people to be used in are busy town center. I like to know why my freedom, to walk around town without suddenly wanting to pass out has to be taken away because of the acts of a few mindless idiots! I’m not totally against the alarm, say in use at night in dangerous estates, but NEVER in the day time.

Jack, Ms Chakrabarti's example stands; yours does not. If you read the article above (you know, the one you're commenting on) you will see what she actually says is 'Imagine the outcry if a device was introduced that caused blanket discomfort to people of one race or gender'. Why does she say race and gender? Because like your age, these are things that you can't change. I imagine that is why she uses these as comparision. She doesn't mention religion - which is quite different to race. So i hope that establishes the difference between age and 4x4s. In addition, where are you getting the idea that the mosquito only affects you if you've been hanging around for hours? it kicks in after a few minutes. I work in an office with a few people who are between the ages of 22 and 24. Round the corner is a supermarket, with the only cash point for miles. it also has a mosquito device. These colleagues of mine - proffesional working men and women - have to get other members of staff to go to the supermarket for them if they would like some lunch. One particular sensitive colleague who needed to get some cash out stuck it out for five minutes and came back to the office wanting to throw up. She also can't open the window in her office because she can hear the device if she does (this mosquito is on all the time as far as we can tell). These are adults!

And what of the 'scum' that are causing trouble? Does the device stop them from causing trouble? Of course not. It just moves them down the road. That's not solving the problem and that's no way to tackle anti-social behaviour. Instead of a device wouldn't it be better to have real live police, using the myraid of powers they have; in addition to powers of arrest, they have powers of dispersal. I would much rather see targeted policing than some device that can't separate between the criminal and the majority of under 25s that are law abiding.

Ridiculous! How dare our children, including babies and toddlers have to tolerate this assault. How can parents allow their children to suffer this abuse, and it is, whatever way you word it, abuse! How can this even be legal? Surely this simply moves a possible problem and does not solve it or even stop it. 'Anything effective can't be all bad' what an extremely poor defense that doesn't even warrant a response. Also, how can it only discriminate against those causing a 'problem' if it effects all from 0-25!

Surely, this is an oppressive and discriminatory act against a group within our society? (Oh, and by the way, to drive a 4X4 into London is a choice that can be changed - sell your car, don't go to London, or buy a smaller car which is now free to go into London not quite so easy to change your age.

Are MacDonalds and local shops to this device only employing those over 25?

It would be reasonable to assume that many young people within this age range will be students, have jobs and be law abiding citizens, but these individuals are equally targeted. So too are the babies and toddlers who may go past one in their buggy?

The vast majority of teenagers in Borehamwood are not 'scum', and are decent young adults who have very limited amenities within Borehamwood.

Our children don't deserve to have to suffer this even if they are misbehaving by standing in groups (and yes, that was sarcasm!)! and if there is a problem with a group of kids, surely as they are being continually watched on the many CCTV cameras located in the area, the police should respond, if and when necessary?

Stand up for children's rights and let the council know that we do not not want mosquitos in Hertsmere, or anywhere in the UK.

I cant beleive this is causing such uproar!!! Why are people so offended?

I think its a BRILLIANT IDEA

For one, it DOES NOT DAMAGE OR HURT anyone, it just annoys, like a barking dog or car stereo might.

If your worried about your precious little Timmy's eardrums, then tell little Timmy to stop hanging about the shops trying to look hard gobbing and shouting all over the place!!!
Im still in my 20's, so im not an old person,but I never used to do that as a kid in Borehamwood, and we had exactly the same lack of facilities.. That is just an excuse for yobbish behaviour, like you see outside McDonalds for instance most Friday nights.

Even I dont like going past certain shops at night, not because im scared, but just because it isnt nice to see loads of kids standing about smoking joints, swearing and generally causing a nuisance.

I would be terrified if I was an old lady walkin along. Do these kids not have ANY respect drummed into them by their parents??

If it was down to me, I would issue the shopowners with tasers not a harmless device that makes an irritating sound.

LETS HOPE WE SEE MORE OF THESE DEVICES!

The people that want to ban 4x4's are the same who will moan and bleat about the mosquito. personally, i think the mosquito is a poor substitutue for what really needs to be done. The police need to come and beat the living crap out of the youths that hang around in hoodies. maybe move them on with an electrified cattle prod.

People just need to wake up and realise their are scum bags out there who just want to cause damage and intimidate people. look at the bus stops near the station. I wonder who smashed the glass? Could it have been a group of youths? of course it was.

The streets need to be reclaimed from the scum.

anyway, why should 4x4 drivers and people carrier drivers change their cars? because they are bullied into it by green nazis? I think you'll find that most new 4x4's and people carriers pollute less than a 10 year old fiesta.

plus remember, the lefty has made a law that all children must have a child seat installed. You need a big car if you have a large family. The socialist green nazi likes to punish those they percieve as rich in their 4x4 or people carrier. that is all it is, the politics of jealousy.

fair enough, something needs to be done about intimidating groups, but how about borehamwood police putting down their cups of tea and getting out and sorting this out.

I've had to report occasions in which gobby kids who think they're big hard men have stolen from me or tried to intimidate me and the police didn't want to know.

I hardly think a high pitched noise is going to solve this problem and it's not fair on those such as babies and small children, and those who aren't troublemakers.

As I live near to Manor Way's shopping parade I would rather like to have one of these installed as it is a blooming nightmare with all of the kids good and bad hanging around and the behaviour of most is dreadful. If we cannot have live Police then this is an alternative. Yes, I know it is my choice to live here but then again circumstances make it difficult to move away and why should I be forced to move because of these badly behaved kids. It also would not have hurt to have sited the camera so that it filmed up and down Arundel as a lot of these duck and dive out of view of cctv.

I total agree about the manor way area, but its not just kids, on a sunday afternoon in the summer, you have all the tennents above the shops playing loud music singing dancing and throwing things of the walk way above, shouting to person on the ground to shout to people at the bus stop ect. These are not kids but adults of different colour, all I no is if was a load of white adults doing the same thing the police would come straight away, and make arrests.

Anon wrote:
I cant beleive this is causing such uproar!!! Why are people so offended? I think its a BRILLIANT IDEA For one, it DOES NOT DAMAGE OR HURT anyone, it just annoys, like a barking dog or car stereo might. If your worried about your precious little Timmy\'s eardrums, then tell little Timmy to stop hanging about the shops trying to look hard gobbing and shouting all over the place!!! Im still in my 20\'s, so im not an old person,but I never used to do that as a kid in Borehamwood, and we had exactly the same lack of facilities.. That is just an excuse for yobbish behaviour, like you see outside McDonalds for instance most Friday nights. Even I dont like going past certain shops at night, not because im scared, but just because it isnt nice to see loads of kids standing about smoking joints, swearing and generally causing a nuisance. I would be terrified if I was an old lady walkin along. Do these kids not have ANY respect drummed into them by their parents?? If it was down to me, I would issue the shopowners with tasers not a harmless device that makes an irritating sound. LETS HOPE WE SEE MORE OF THESE DEVICES!

I am a 20 year old female with severe oversensory issues due to high functioning autism. I heard the sound over the news and let me tell you, IT FREAKIN HURTS!!!! I had my ears ringing for 10 minutes after it played for 3 seconds, and a severe headache that night! That thing is not safe at all means.