Police advice for pedestrians (From Borehamwood Times)

WTF

Yes that's fine as long as you don't 'inconveniently' walk around quiet residential roads (where most of us live!!) after midnight when the lights go off!

Join our 'Turn our street lights back on' Campaign!

Crazy-Sue - Here you go again with the 'turn our lights on' rubbish.

No one is interested in your campaign apart from a few other crackpots in Radlett. Besides, the council and HCC already said NO to you twice, do you think it will change now?!


PLUS, the fact that this particular 'incident' happened at 9PM which meant the street lights would of been ON, meaning your theory about criminals being scared of commiting crime on lit roads to be complete rubbish.

I rest my case m'lud, no more questions.

mr.taxpayer wrote:
Crazy-Sue - Here you go again with the 'turn our lights on' rubbish.

No one is interested in your campaign apart from a few other crackpots in Radlett. Besides, the council and HCC already said NO to you twice, do you think it will change now?!


PLUS, the fact that this particular 'incident' happened at 9PM which meant the street lights would of been ON, meaning your theory about criminals being scared of commiting crime on lit roads to be complete rubbish.

I rest my case m'lud, no more questions.

How rude of you Mr Taxpayer. You are wrong actually. Plenty of people are interested in the campaign and feel strongly about it. No need to resort to insulting someone. Is this comments section not moderated? (it should be). By all means, make a sensible comment (free speech an' all that) but calling someone crazy is just nasty. And just because HCC have said no to reinstating the street lighting after 12, that doesn't mean people don't have the right to protest about what was always an ill thought out move. I for one would like my home-before-lights-o
ut curfew lifted.

Protest all you want, just stop posting the same stuff on this news forum everytime a crime story pops up.

And FYI, being called crazy is neither rude nor nasty. I purposely made a point of using a word that didn't insult publicly, althought privately I think she needs to get a hobby or a husband and stop worrying about non existant problems.

suetoberman wrote:

mr.taxpayer wrote:
Crazy-Sue - Here you go again with the 'turn our lights on' rubbish.

No one is interested in your campaign apart from a few other crackpots in Radlett. Besides, the council and HCC already said NO to you twice, do you think it will change now?!


PLUS, the fact that this particular 'incident' happened at 9PM which meant the street lights would of been ON, meaning your theory about criminals being scared of commiting crime on lit roads to be complete rubbish.

I rest my case m'lud, no more questions.

How rude of you Mr Taxpayer. You are wrong actually. Plenty of people are interested in the campaign and feel strongly about it. No need to resort to insulting someone. Is this comments section not moderated? (it should be). By all means, make a sensible comment (free speech an' all that) but calling someone crazy is just nasty. And just because HCC have said no to reinstating the street lighting after 12, that doesn't mean people don't have the right to protest about what was always an ill thought out move. I for one would like my home-before-lights-o

ut curfew lifted.

and what 'curfew' are you talking about? Oh, the crazy self imposed one because you have issues about being out late at night?

I mean honestly, do you leave your lights on all night at home to feel safe when you sleep? Do you REALLY feel scared driving home on the odd occasion after 12 just because some lights aren't on outside your home? - Can't you afford to spend £8 or £9 (probably cheaper than organising a petition) to buy a small light with a sensor outside your home? - You might think it is your right to have every light on all night, but what about the right of everyone that doesn't want all this unnecassary light pollution, or the right to not waste energy?

I think you're missing the point Mr Taxpayer. There were and still are far cheaper and better ways to do this and make immediate savings and every road could still be lit all night. Don't forget they spent £4.5 Million of our money without so much as asking for suggestions. No hope of seeing a return on this 'Investment' for at least 5 years, by which time i'm sure another very costly solution will be 'Invested in'. So Sue and anyone that was just a little bit peeved that the council have wasted our money, when very little outlay would have left everyone with some light and they wouldn't have had to wait 5 years to probably just break even with their 'Investment' as the savings would be immediate.

mr.taxpayer wrote:

suetoberman wrote:

mr.taxpayer wrote:
Crazy-Sue - Here you go again with the 'turn our lights on' rubbish.

No one is interested in your campaign apart from a few other crackpots in Radlett. Besides, the council and HCC already said NO to you twice, do you think it will change now?!


PLUS, the fact that this particular 'incident' happened at 9PM which meant the street lights would of been ON, meaning your theory about criminals being scared of commiting crime on lit roads to be complete rubbish.

I rest my case m'lud, no more questions.

How rude of you Mr Taxpayer. You are wrong actually. Plenty of people are interested in the campaign and feel strongly about it. No need to resort to insulting someone. Is this comments section not moderated? (it should be). By all means, make a sensible comment (free speech an' all that) but calling someone crazy is just nasty. And just because HCC have said no to reinstating the street lighting after 12, that doesn't mean people don't have the right to protest about what was always an ill thought out move. I for one would like my home-before-lights-o


ut curfew lifted.

and what 'curfew' are you talking about? Oh, the crazy self imposed one because you have issues about being out late at night?

I mean honestly, do you leave your lights on all night at home to feel safe when you sleep? Do you REALLY feel scared driving home on the odd occasion after 12 just because some lights aren't on outside your home? - Can't you afford to spend £8 or £9 (probably cheaper than organising a petition) to buy a small light with a sensor outside your home? - You might think it is your right to have every light on all night, but what about the right of everyone that doesn't want all this unnecassary light pollution, or the right to not waste energy?

Mr Taxpayer, I assume you are a mister? I am a female and any female would feel vulnerable when walking home in the dark. I used to like meeting friends in London. I can't do that any more, or not unless I am home before lights out. I have on occasion got a taxi from the station but that isn't an altogether pleasant experience, not to mention expensive. I pay my taxes, just like you do and I resent having to pay out for taxis. As for your inane comment about me leaving my lights on at home so I don't feel vulnerable, there is a lock on my door. I feel safe. I do not feel safe walking along unlit roads. Would you be happy with your daughter/your wife/your mother walking home in the darkness? And what about people who work shifts and have no choice but to be walking in unlit streets in the darkness?
Finally, I have met Sue and she is certainly not mad. If anyone here is looking a little unhinged, it is you.

I am puzzled why Mr Taxpayer feels the need to be so angry and offensive about this.

It’s easy to look at things from your own point of view – Mr Taxpayer could try thinking how other people are affected. A few years ago I wouldn’t have been concerned about the lights going out just before midnight. I didn’t live alone, so rarely came home late at night on my own. I lived in a house with a drive and a security light which came on when I drove up to the front door. Maybe if this issue had arisen at that time I might have thought it was a fuss about nothing – it didn’t affect me so why should I care?

Now I do live alone and in a flat with no parking. I’m lucky I have a car so don’t have to walk in total darkness from the bus stop, but I can rarely park near my own front door and if I get home late at night can’t even park in my own street. This was never a problem for me before the lights were turned off at midnight.

I think Mr Taxpayer has missed the point. Of course I don’t feel scared driving in the dark; it is the getting out of the car and walking in total darkness from the car to my house, sometimes from another street. I’ve tried using a torch but just lighting a tiny area while walking along doesn’t really help the feeling of discomfort. The only answer for me now is that I don’t go out alone unless I can be home by 11.45pm. So yes, it is a ‘self-imposed curfew’. He can make comments like ‘can’t you afford the £8 or £9 for a security light’, but it doesn’t help if you can’t park near your own property.

I am also a taxpayer and certainly don’t find it easy to pay my council tax bills, but would gladly pay the very small amount per household needed to cover night time street lighting. As far as the issue of ‘light pollution’ goes, we all know this is not the reason the lights are turned off and if I wanted to live in the country with no ‘light pollution’, then that is where I would have chosen to live.

I also support the campaign to turn the lights back on, and I live in Borehamwood, not Radlett, Mr Taxpayer. Luckily I have my own car, but certainly do not feel safe walking down the road in the dark if I come home 'late' and have to park half way down the road either because there is no space outside my house or because there is only a very tiny space which I would be able to manoeuvre into if I could SEE but it's often impossible in the pitch darkness!

I would also like to know why half the lights in my road, and others nearby, aren't even on in the early evening, let alone after midnight! Even though it isn't pitch black, with half the lights out it *is* very dark and I certainly didn't feel safe walking back from a friend's house to my own through half-lit roads at 8pm!

FAO of Mr Tax-payer - or may i call you in return 'Mr Crazy Tax-payer' seeing as you don't think that's offensive.

I don't know your true identity 'Mr Taxpayer' but may be one day you will reveal yourself and your relevant circumstances to this 'conversation' and can tell us politely why you hold your particular views.... without 'slagging off' myself or the Campaign in the process.

I also want to address the fact with you that it doesn't matter what 'your intention' is when writing your 'rude' comments but for the record i am finding your personal remarks offensive, both on this occasion and on a previous occasion and i made that clear to you last time.


I have no objections to you having a difference of opinion that's great. But calling me 'Crazy-sue' just because you don't agree with me and 'dictating' when i can write a comment is just down right rude and indicates a lack of social awareness and poor online etiquette.

You also clearly didn't read my comment properly - my comment was related to the actual newspaper article above but was a general comment:

"Yes that's fine as long as you don't 'inconveniently' walk around quiet residential roads (where most of us live!!) after midnight when the lights go off!

Join our 'Turn our street lights back on' Campaign!”

Our campaign represents the thousands of people in Herts who do want the street lights turned back on again. Our campaign may go on for some months or even years, so i suggest you get used to our Campaign being around.

Now in your own words but mirrored back to you ''privately I think he needs to get a hobby or a wife and stop worrying about non-existent problems.”

Touche!

Has street crime gone up since the lights out policy? Doesn't make sense that muggers and attackers get busier in darkness.

Is there anyone from the Times Group of newspapers who actually reads these posts? If so, please could they arrange to block the horrible rants of mr.taxpayer and delete his account?

Thank you.

That is all.

I'm amazed at all these women posters claiming they all walk the streets of Borehamwood regularly after midnight...

Where are you all going?

And besides, do you REALLY think some rapist/mugger high off his face on crack is going to be put off by a street light? - Crime still happened before the switch off didn't it?

Honestly, people are getting their knickers in a twist over nothing, I'm not 'anti' lights on, I just think people should accept the majority decision.

pressy wrote:
Is there anyone from the Times Group of newspapers who actually reads these posts? If so, please could they arrange to block the horrible rants of mr.taxpayer and delete his account?

Thank you.

That is all.

Completely agree with pressy - 'Mr Taxpayer' is not engaging in a helpful debate and his comments are unpleasant, and clearly sexist and intended to offend. Allowing these sort of comments to go unchecked is bringing your newspaper into disrepute by failing to act.

mr.taxpayer wrote:
I'm amazed at all these women posters claiming they all walk the streets of Borehamwood regularly after midnight...

Where are you all going?

And besides, do you REALLY think some rapist/mugger high off his face on crack is going to be put off by a street light? - Crime still happened before the switch off didn't it?

Honestly, people are getting their knickers in a twist over nothing, I'm not 'anti' lights on, I just think people should accept the majority decision.

Oh dear dear. Do I have to state the obvious, Mr Taxpayer, that all us women posters (and no doubt some men too!) are not necessarily GOING anywhere but COMING back from somewhere. Have you ever been threatened or attacked or mugged Mr Taxpayer? Because if you had or even if you felt vulnerable in any situation then you would not see this issue as trivial. Can you for one moment show some empathy and put yourself in someone else's shoes? Can you do that? And another point you missed was that it was not a majority decision. Were you consulted? Was I? It was merely an ill thought out cost-cutting exercise.

mr.taxpayer wrote:
I'm amazed at all these women posters claiming they all walk the streets of Borehamwood regularly after midnight...

Where are you all going?

And besides, do you REALLY think some rapist/mugger high off his face on crack is going to be put off by a street light? - Crime still happened before the switch off didn't it?

Honestly, people are getting their knickers in a twist over nothing, I'm not 'anti' lights on, I just think people should accept the majority decision.

Oh dear dear. Do I have to state the obvious, Mr Taxpayer, that all us women posters (and no doubt some men too!) are not necessarily GOING anywhere but COMING back from somewhere. Have you ever been threatened or attacked or mugged Mr Taxpayer? Because if you had or even if you felt vulnerable in any situation then you would not see this issue as trivial. Can you for one moment show some empathy and put yourself in someone else's shoes? Can you do that? And another point you missed was that it was not a majority decision. Were you consulted? Was I? It was merely an ill thought out cost-cutting exercise.

You cant ask to have the account of a poster closed because you dont agree with them or they dont agree with you!
As for the lights if they stay on then something else suffers and doesn't get funded. I think they should be off at night as they are a waste of time and money- they only serve a useful purpose for dogs to pee against. Borehamwood is a very safe place actually and crime is pretty low- street lights make no difference. You need to put your big boy or big girl trousers on and think more logically.

FAO Studio 70. The Borehamwood Times papers rules regarding these comments are:

"Please be fair, courteous and respectful to the views of others so we can build a vibrant community in a safe online environment. You are personal liable for your comments and action will be taken against anyone who offends, ridicules or posts malicious and damaging views. If you wish to complain, please contact us".

I don't see any room there to be misunderstood. I was offended by being called 'Crazy-Sue' when there was no need for such a comment and my views weren't respected and were ridiculed. I don't mind others having different views but these can be aired without insulting others. Its all about on-line etiquette!

I also suggest you ask a number of females, (and men and older teenagers/nightclubb
ers/shiftworkers too) what they think of street lighting being off late at night or very early in the morning if they're coming home late or working on early shifts. Certainly 98% of the 500 people i surveyed in Borehamwood wanted them left on. These included families with teenage (or older) children coming home late at night, shift workers e.g. nurses, carers, train drivers etc. Even now i get an earful from these people (men and women) wanting to know whats happening with the street lighting and when they'll be back on again. It does only cost an extra few pounds (literally £1-3 a year extra) to run them per year per council tax payer. I would willing pay that. One lady i met said she'd pay an extra £5 a month to have them back on again.

Our campaign respects all views but we are there to support those who are affected by street lights being off be it for health, safety, wellbeing or just general reasons specific to each individual. It is not just about crime or the fear of crime, its about being able to see all around you quickly if you hear a noise - might just be a leaf rustling or it could be person who just happens to be behind you going the same way. Every walk to or from work (or where ever) is different and using a torch is not the same as being able to see immediately what's in your vicinity. As a group we do care about those who are out and about when the lights are off.

I should also point out that had we enjoyed a full and proper consultation with HCC, i'm sure as 'Plan B' we would have agreed a compromise of the lights even being off say between 1am to 5am. So at least it gave the vast majority of those out at that time a chance to have some street lighting on especially as public transport runs till 1am and is running from 5am.

If you're ok with street lights being off that's fine - enjoy the darkness!!

Suzy-Sue wrote:
FAO Studio 70. The Borehamwood Times papers rules regarding these comments are: "Please be fair, courteous and respectful to the views of others so we can build a vibrant community in a safe online environment. You are personal liable for your comments and action will be taken against anyone who offends, ridicules or posts malicious and damaging views. If you wish to complain, please contact us". I don't see any room there to be misunderstood. I was offended by being called 'Crazy-Sue' when there was no need for such a comment and my views weren't respected and were ridiculed. I don't mind others having different views but these can be aired without insulting others. Its all about on-line etiquette! I also suggest you ask a number of females, (and men and older teenagers/nightclubb ers/shiftworkers too) what they think of street lighting being off late at night or very early in the morning if they're coming home late or working on early shifts. Certainly 98% of the 500 people i surveyed in Borehamwood wanted them left on. These included families with teenage (or older) children coming home late at night, shift workers e.g. nurses, carers, train drivers etc. Even now i get an earful from these people (men and women) wanting to know whats happening with the street lighting and when they'll be back on again. It does only cost an extra few pounds (literally £1-3 a year extra) to run them per year per council tax payer. I would willing pay that. One lady i met said she'd pay an extra £5 a month to have them back on again. Our campaign respects all views but we are there to support those who are affected by street lights being off be it for health, safety, wellbeing or just general reasons specific to each individual. It is not just about crime or the fear of crime, its about being able to see all around you quickly if you hear a noise - might just be a leaf rustling or it could be person who just happens to be behind you going the same way. Every walk to or from work (or where ever) is different and using a torch is not the same as being able to see immediately what's in your vicinity. As a group we do care about those who are out and about when the lights are off. I should also point out that had we enjoyed a full and proper consultation with HCC, i'm sure as 'Plan B' we would have agreed a compromise of the lights even being off say between 1am to 5am. So at least it gave the vast majority of those out at that time a chance to have some street lighting on especially as public transport runs till 1am and is running from 5am. If you're ok with street lights being off that's fine - enjoy the darkness!!

Sorry for late reply I just got in as I couldnt find my house. Honestly were you really offended at being called 'crazy'? I have huge indifference to this subject- it really isnt the point of the article- you have hijacked it for your lost cause

I would think most people would be offended at being called crazy. Just because someone feels passionately about an issue or thinks bad decisions were made by HCC and they voice their views in an articulate and well thought out manner, for sure it doesn't make them crazy. And why would anyone bother to post in the first place if they had 'huge indifference' to a subject? Whether the cause is 'lost' or not remains to be seen but that doesn't mean that an opinion shouldn't be voiced in a sensible non-confrontational way or that a campaign should not be started. People do feel very strongly about this issue.

I think your posts speak for themselves Sue. I am indifferent to the lights issue but I am bemused by your continued pursuit of it- it's over and it is, on reflection a good desicion- a total waste of money hiving lights on through the night just on the off chance that you are getting home late. By people I imagine you mean a person- ie you. Nobody is that bothered Sue- Bowhamwood doesnt do bothered or passionate unless it was to do with the closure of a fried chicken shop or pound world- nobody cares Sue and for good reason- it doesn't matter to most people- It's over baby!

You seem to have conveniently overlooked £4.5 Million it cost to introduce part time lighting. Why weren't far cheaper and far better options explored? But i think we all know the answer............so
meone is making a lot of money this way!

who or what is 'meone'?

lol Sorry Sue, got a bit carried away with the full stops and when i clicked submit the word 'someone' got seperated.

Thank goodness! What a classic typo!That's the funniest thing i've read all day! I thought there was some evil character called 'Meone' involved! lol