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Many need housing help
Regarding the story Mum struggles on housing list' (February 15), this is not the only family struggling.
My daughter is on the list to be moved and lives in a two-bedroom William Sutton house.
She has a 15-year-old daughter who has one bedroom and she herself sleeps in the other bedroom with her six-year-old son.
The only thing he can sleep in is a cot bed, as a normal size bed won't fit in.
My son has three children, two boys and a girl, and they all live in a two-bedroom flat. Again they are on the list to be moved.
So come on William Sutton, start building three-bedroom houses that tenants are crying out for, forget the two bedrooms.
After all, there will be plenty about when you move the tenants out of their two bedrooms into the threes.
But it seems you don't care, do you?
June Hastings
Greenside, Borehamwood
9:35am Friday 29th February 2008
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CommentPosted by: jason, borehamwood on 11:29pm Sat 1 Mar 08
i totally agree i know someone that lives in a 2 bed flat with her partner of several years and her 4 sons ranging from 1 too 7 and also my sister with her partner and 3 girls and 1 boy in a 3 bed flat in manor way which isnt the nicest of places.. its just silly when people that havent lived her all their lives get flats and a drop of a hat..
i totally agree i know someone that lives in a 2 bed flat with her partner of several years and her 4 sons ranging from 1 too 7 and also my sister with her partner and 3 girls and 1 boy in a 3 bed flat in manor way which isnt the nicest of places.. its just silly when people that havent lived her all their lives get flats and a drop of a hat..
Posted by: k, borehamwood on 9:57am Mon 3 Mar 08
i know of a house in borehamwood that has twice had people housed into it that only needed a 2 bed the first time was a single mum with 2 boys with the combined age of 1 and a half at the time then it was used to house a single mum with a child of about 2 why would any of these people need a 3 bed house? i was told that this was because of a shortage of 2 beds well if that was the reason why not use your heads and move a family from a 2 bed to the 3 bed that need it and give these people the 2 bed they need. i am sure this is not the only time this has happened.
i know of a house in borehamwood that has twice had people housed into it that only needed a 2 bed the first time was a single mum with 2 boys with the combined age of 1 and a half at the time then it was used to house a single mum with a child of about 2 why would any of these people need a 3 bed house? i was told that this was because of a shortage of 2 beds well if that was the reason why not use your heads and move a family from a 2 bed to the 3 bed that need it and give these people the 2 bed they need. i am sure this is not the only time this has happened.
Posted by: Jack, Borehamwood on 5:55pm Mon 10 Mar 08
and why has your son got three kids if he only lives in a two bedroom flat? Because he is an irresponsible scrounger. I have plenty of friends who would like three children but don't have room. The difference is, they look after themselves and if they can't afford them or have room for them they don't have them. they don't sit begging like your son for his hand out.
Please sir, please, give us a bigger home sir. please any change guv.
and the joke is, all you people are too blind to see what you are. scroungers and beggars.
Your son, in his 2 bedroom flat should have one child. The end.
He is just an irresponsible idiotic layabout - only society is more stupid, paying for him.
and why has your son got three kids if he only lives in a two bedroom flat? Because he is an irresponsible scrounger. I have plenty of friends who would like three children but don't have room. The difference is, they look after themselves and if they can't afford them or have room for them they don't have them. they don't sit begging like your son for his hand out.
Please sir, please, give us a bigger home sir. please any change guv.
and the joke is, all you people are too blind to see what you are. scroungers and beggars.
Your son, in his 2 bedroom flat should have one child. The end.
He is just an irresponsible idiotic layabout - only society is more stupid, paying for him.
Posted by: k the mother of June's 3 grandchildren, borehamwood on 6:40pm Mon 10 Mar 08
no Jack you are wrong June's son is not a scrounger he is a very hard working man that loves his 3 children to bits and does all he can to get them the things they need.
He is not sitting begging with his hand out he has been waiting for 3 years to be moved and has not kicked up a fuss he has just waited for his turn.
Jack i would like to have my place to speak out of turn to you as you have done to so many others but i know my comment would not be shown so there for i wont tell you, you have made your opinion clear but accept it you are not going to change how this country is run so now that we know the way you think keep it to yourself and stop slating people that dont live like you as there are many walks of life and if we were all able to buy our own house there would not be ha places and also if only the sick and old were ment to be in affordable housing there would only be housing for them and if we go with your way of thinking why should old people be housed by ha surly they would of payed for their house by the time they are old.
no Jack you are wrong June's son is not a scrounger he is a very hard working man that loves his 3 children to bits and does all he can to get them the things they need.
He is not sitting begging with his hand out he has been waiting for 3 years to be moved and has not kicked up a fuss he has just waited for his turn.
Jack i would like to have my place to speak out of turn to you as you have done to so many others but i know my comment would not be shown so there for i wont tell you, you have made your opinion clear but accept it you are not going to change how this country is run so now that we know the way you think keep it to yourself and stop slating people that dont live like you as there are many walks of life and if we were all able to buy our own house there would not be ha places and also if only the sick and old were ment to be in affordable housing there would only be housing for them and if we go with your way of thinking why should old people be housed by ha surly they would of payed for their house by the time they are old.
Posted by: Jack, Borehamwood on 11:58pm Mon 10 Mar 08
K, you live in flat with one bedroom for children. you chose to have three kids. so just live there. stop expecting society to give you a bigger house because you and your bloke can't or won't use contraception.
As far as i am concerned, you can have 50 kids in there if you like. Just don't expect a bigger house because ytou keep pumping out kids you can't afford to raise.
you bloke may well work hard, but he obviously doesn't earn a sufficient salary to pay for a home for them which is, pretty fundamental.
people like you will never change your attitude because it is so ingrained. you do what you like, have as many kids as you like, and society will pay for it by giving you a bigger house - maybe not immediately, but eventually.
i suppose no.4 is on the way.
K, you live in flat with one bedroom for children. you chose to have three kids. so just live there. stop expecting society to give you a bigger house because you and your bloke can't or won't use contraception.
As far as i am concerned, you can have 50 kids in there if you like. Just don't expect a bigger house because ytou keep pumping out kids you can't afford to raise.
you bloke may well work hard, but he obviously doesn't earn a sufficient salary to pay for a home for them which is, pretty fundamental.
people like you will never change your attitude because it is so ingrained. you do what you like, have as many kids as you like, and society will pay for it by giving you a bigger house - maybe not immediately, but eventually.
i suppose no.4 is on the way.
Posted by: k, borehamwood on 1:04am Tue 11 Mar 08
i am not going to justify myself to you Jack yes i have 3 children in my 2 bed flat and i am on the waiting list for a bigger property and i will wait till i am housed.
and if you payed as much attention to my post's as i have to yours you would know that number 4 is at alum lane.
i will now thank you to keep your comments to yourself.
stay in Jacks world i will stay in the real world and hope that i dont become as bitter and twisted as you.
i am not going to justify myself to you Jack yes i have 3 children in my 2 bed flat and i am on the waiting list for a bigger property and i will wait till i am housed.
and if you payed as much attention to my post's as i have to yours you would know that number 4 is at alum lane.
i will now thank you to keep your comments to yourself.
stay in Jacks world i will stay in the real world and hope that i dont become as bitter and twisted as you.
Posted by: jack, Borehamwood on 10:13am Tue 11 Mar 08
But i'm not bitter and twisted at all. I just pay for my home and my family, and expect others to do the same. And if others can't afford a home for their family I expect them to have the sense to have a smaller family, not contuinually pump them out and expect the council to give them a bigger house.
You are expecting a bigger house. maybe not today or tomorrow, but eventually you expect the tax payer to pay for you to live in a 4 bedroom house.
Lets say all society was like you (a leach) and everyone had three children but didn't have any room for them, and everyone expected a free 4 bedroom house. Where would we be???
Exactly. That is the real world. Not the idiot handout freebie take take take world you frequent.
You only live as you do because sensible decent people pay their taxes and live within their means to fund morons that don't.
If everyone was like you, you'd be on the street. You only have the flat you have now because of people like me financing it, let alone the bigger house you expect for having more kids.
In the real world, to get a bigger house, you have to work harder, get a bigger mortgage and pay through the teeth.
But i'm not bitter and twisted at all. I just pay for my home and my family, and expect others to do the same. And if others can't afford a home for their family I expect them to have the sense to have a smaller family, not contuinually pump them out and expect the council to give them a bigger house.
You are expecting a bigger house. maybe not today or tomorrow, but eventually you expect the tax payer to pay for you to live in a 4 bedroom house.
Lets say all society was like you (a leach) and everyone had three children but didn't have any room for them, and everyone expected a free 4 bedroom house. Where would we be???
Exactly. That is the real world. Not the idiot handout freebie take take take world you frequent.
You only live as you do because sensible decent people pay their taxes and live within their means to fund morons that don't.
If everyone was like you, you'd be on the street. You only have the flat you have now because of people like me financing it, let alone the bigger house you expect for having more kids.
In the real world, to get a bigger house, you have to work harder, get a bigger mortgage and pay through the teeth.
Posted by: D, watford on 10:23am Tue 11 Mar 08
if everyone stopped having kids coz they couldnt 'afford them'do you realise what would happen to the future of this country?If you earn less than 12 000 pa,acccording to the E.U. you are considered to be living in poverty.I know plenty of familys who work hard, yet live on the breadline.But their children are happy and couldnt be more loved. This includes K, her partner and her 3 kids.I have never seen them go without anything.Also K and her bloke pay full rent,claim no state benefits so who are you to say how many kids someone should have. because they cant 'afford' them? Children are a blessing and also the future of our country so if someone chooses to have 20 kids,it is no ones business if they are looked after and raised with morals and taught to respect everyone no matter what sort of background they come from or what money they earn.Jack you and the rest of the bitter right wing pigs should try and learn the same.Or maybe go live somewhere else if you hate this country so much!
if everyone stopped having kids coz they couldnt 'afford them'do you realise what would happen to the future of this country?If you earn less than 12 000 pa,acccording to the E.U. you are considered to be living in poverty.I know plenty of familys who work hard, yet live on the breadline.But their children are happy and couldnt be more loved. This includes K, her partner and her 3 kids.I have never seen them go without anything.Also K and her bloke pay full rent,claim no state benefits so who are you to say how many kids someone should have. because they cant 'afford' them? Children are a blessing and also the future of our country so if someone chooses to have 20 kids,it is no ones business if they are looked after and raised with morals and taught to respect everyone no matter what sort of background they come from or what money they earn.Jack you and the rest of the bitter right wing pigs should try and learn the same.Or maybe go live somewhere else if you hate this country so much!
Posted by: k, borehamwood on 10:27am Tue 11 Mar 08
I dont want a four bed a 3 will do nicely thanks and we pay everything you do just my rent is slightly cheaper thats all. So i can afford to have my children.
tell you what Jack i will go and private rent a 3 bed house so i can house my 3 children i will live outside my means and claim housing benifit for what rent i cant afford you will be none the wiser that i am dipping in your pockets but it will be ok cos i have privatly rented!!
By your comments Jack i think you would rather i lived in a ha property not claiming anything and living my life. i am sure that if i pay rent for the next 50 years i will of payed the ha what my flat is worth on the market just i will not own it myself.
I dont want a four bed a 3 will do nicely thanks and we pay everything you do just my rent is slightly cheaper thats all. So i can afford to have my children.
tell you what Jack i will go and private rent a 3 bed house so i can house my 3 children i will live outside my means and claim housing benifit for what rent i cant afford you will be none the wiser that i am dipping in your pockets but it will be ok cos i have privatly rented!!
By your comments Jack i think you would rather i lived in a ha property not claiming anything and living my life. i am sure that if i pay rent for the next 50 years i will of payed the ha what my flat is worth on the market just i will not own it myself.
Posted by: D, Watford on 10:28am Tue 11 Mar 08
to the comment just posted by Jack 11.58, YOU DO NOT PAY FOR PEOPLE LIVING IN COUNCIL OR HA PROPERTIES!!are you dumb or what?Why should people rent privatly and pay double the amount of rent so someone should get rich from it?Your argument that the taxpayer pays for concil or ha places has no substance.Not only are you ignorant you have made yourself look very silly
to the comment just posted by Jack 11.58, YOU DO NOT PAY FOR PEOPLE LIVING IN COUNCIL OR HA PROPERTIES!!are you dumb or what?Why should people rent privatly and pay double the amount of rent so someone should get rich from it?Your argument that the taxpayer pays for concil or ha places has no substance.Not only are you ignorant you have made yourself look very silly
Posted by: k, borehamwood on 10:33am Tue 11 Mar 08
to put my comment straight i will of payed what it is worth on the market today plus nearly half again
to put my comment straight i will of payed what it is worth on the market today plus nearly half again
Posted by: jack, Borehamwood on 11:05am Tue 11 Mar 08
These are the sort of answers I would expect from dimwits.
D, who pays for the HA houses to be built, to run them, to repair them, for the land they are built on? The taxpayer. It is all subsidised by the tax payer. I'm sure you believe it comes from some magic tree in the garden D.
Also D, a load of kids born to spongers will just be a new generation of spongers for the decent to subsidise.
Look at most better off families. they have one or two kids. Look at most scroungers - three, four, five - and that is just the number of dads.
These kids will all be pregnant and on job seekers allowance/income support when they are 16 being a larger drain on the taxpayer.
Its a viscious cycle.
These are the sort of answers I would expect from dimwits.
D, who pays for the HA houses to be built, to run them, to repair them, for the land they are built on? The taxpayer. It is all subsidised by the tax payer. I'm sure you believe it comes from some magic tree in the garden D.
Also D, a load of kids born to spongers will just be a new generation of spongers for the decent to subsidise.
Look at most better off families. they have one or two kids. Look at most scroungers - three, four, five - and that is just the number of dads.
These kids will all be pregnant and on job seekers allowance/income support when they are 16 being a larger drain on the taxpayer.
Its a viscious cycle.
Posted by: k, borehamwood on 11:20am Tue 11 Mar 08
Jack so where does the the other over 100 thousand go that i will end up paying over the market price i am sure that is what they put towards new property's and repairs and that price is based on the rent i am paying today not including the rent increase i get every year.
Jack so where does the the other over 100 thousand go that i will end up paying over the market price i am sure that is what they put towards new property's and repairs and that price is based on the rent i am paying today not including the rent increase i get every year.
Posted by: Jack, Borehamwood on 11:34am Tue 11 Mar 08
K, if you believe your lower than market value rent pays for (a) the land the HA property is built on, (b) the building of the houses/flats, (c) the upkeep of those flats, (d) the salaries of all the HA staff, (e) all other expenses such as insurance of the buildings, communal electricty, lighting, heating etc
then you are very much mistaken.
When a new development is built, the council will bully the developer into building homes for people like you. They will withhold planning consent otherwise. The developer will have some of his land taken away to build houses for the HA. The developer does not like this and increases the prices of the houses for others to buy (hence you are being subsidised on many many levels).
The truth is K, without your handouts (whether direct or indirect) you would be in the street or some filthy hovel.
all the rents collected by the variious HA's probably don't cover all their costs.
K, if you believe your lower than market value rent pays for (a) the land the HA property is built on, (b) the building of the houses/flats, (c) the upkeep of those flats, (d) the salaries of all the HA staff, (e) all other expenses such as insurance of the buildings, communal electricty, lighting, heating etc
then you are very much mistaken.
When a new development is built, the council will bully the developer into building homes for people like you. They will withhold planning consent otherwise. The developer will have some of his land taken away to build houses for the HA. The developer does not like this and increases the prices of the houses for others to buy (hence you are being subsidised on many many levels).
The truth is K, without your handouts (whether direct or indirect) you would be in the street or some filthy hovel.
all the rents collected by the variious HA's probably don't cover all their costs.
Posted by: k, borehamwood on 12:15pm Tue 11 Mar 08
I pay extra on top of my rent to pay for the communal lighting,cleaning,wa
ter,extra rubbish collection ect.
Jack why dont you put your energy in to making comments on people that really scrounge the ones that claim money that thay are not entitled to ect i notice you dont make comments on things like this. leave people that are trying the best they can with what they have yes we may ask for a bigger place only asking not demanding this letter was only to highlight the fact that many family's struggle not for you to get on your high horse.
I pay extra on top of my rent to pay for the communal lighting,cleaning,wa
ter,extra rubbish collection ect.
Jack why dont you put your energy in to making comments on people that really scrounge the ones that claim money that thay are not entitled to ect i notice you dont make comments on things like this. leave people that are trying the best they can with what they have yes we may ask for a bigger place only asking not demanding this letter was only to highlight the fact that many family's struggle not for you to get on your high horse.
Posted by: k, borehamwood on 12:31pm Tue 11 Mar 08
I pay extra on top of my rent to cover things like communal lighting,water,extra rubbish collections,cleaning
,entrance gate that keeps getting broken by the private tennants ect.
This arugment is going round in circle's Jack i am sure that market prices cover the costs of building the property and the ground it is on and as i have said based on the market value in a total of 60 years of renting this flat the market value will be covered and at least half again based on the rent i pay today with out a yearly rent increase.
Why dont you put you energy in to commenting on the real scroungers the ones that commit benift fraud ect as i notice you dont seem to be bothered about things like this.
leave people alone that are trying to live honestly with what they have.
I pay extra on top of my rent to cover things like communal lighting,water,extra rubbish collections,cleaning
,entrance gate that keeps getting broken by the private tennants ect.
This arugment is going round in circle's Jack i am sure that market prices cover the costs of building the property and the ground it is on and as i have said based on the market value in a total of 60 years of renting this flat the market value will be covered and at least half again based on the rent i pay today with out a yearly rent increase.
Why dont you put you energy in to commenting on the real scroungers the ones that commit benift fraud ect as i notice you dont seem to be bothered about things like this.
leave people alone that are trying to live honestly with what they have.
Posted by: Jack, Borehamwood on 12:35pm Tue 11 Mar 08
Yes, but you struggle because you chose to have three children and you can't afford to house them. The only reason you may be able to afford to feed them or clothe them is because you pay a subsidised rent on a flat you wouldn't normally be able to afford, and now you are waiting to be housed in a three bedroom house you couldn't afford to buy or rent in the real world, but pay subsidised rent. there are plenty of three bedroomed houses for rent. you just can't afford them and have to patiently wait until you agre given one.
As i said, what would happen if everyone did what you did? how would everyone be given subsidised housing???????
you take advantage. If you and your bloke had to pay full market rent for your children forever (until they were old enough to move out) then you probably would not have had them.
Yes, but you struggle because you chose to have three children and you can't afford to house them. The only reason you may be able to afford to feed them or clothe them is because you pay a subsidised rent on a flat you wouldn't normally be able to afford, and now you are waiting to be housed in a three bedroom house you couldn't afford to buy or rent in the real world, but pay subsidised rent. there are plenty of three bedroomed houses for rent. you just can't afford them and have to patiently wait until you agre given one.
As i said, what would happen if everyone did what you did? how would everyone be given subsidised housing???????
you take advantage. If you and your bloke had to pay full market rent for your children forever (until they were old enough to move out) then you probably would not have had them.
Posted by: k, borehamwood on 12:54pm Tue 11 Mar 08
and as i have pointed out if i rent from a ha for a total of 60 years i will of payed the price of a property plus but i will not own it and when i stop renting a place someone else will take my place and the market price will have already been covered but the rent wont go down it will keep going up on a yearly basis.
Another point i have made is if i want to go and privatly rent i could i would not of had to wait 3 years for my 3 bed house but that would mean me having to apply for housing benifit is that ok with you jack?
and as i have pointed out if i rent from a ha for a total of 60 years i will of payed the price of a property plus but i will not own it and when i stop renting a place someone else will take my place and the market price will have already been covered but the rent wont go down it will keep going up on a yearly basis.
Another point i have made is if i want to go and privatly rent i could i would not of had to wait 3 years for my 3 bed house but that would mean me having to apply for housing benifit is that ok with you jack?
Posted by: Anon, Borehamwood on 2:16pm Tue 11 Mar 08
I dont understand - so anyone who cant afford a house or flat can apply for housing benifit's? Or do you have to be not working?
I dont understand - so anyone who cant afford a house or flat can apply for housing benifit's? Or do you have to be not working?
Posted by: k, borehamwood on 2:48pm Tue 11 Mar 08
if you can't afford to pay full rent you can apply and you will have to supply allsorts and the council will means test you and if you meet the criteria then you will get help if your not working and claiming benifits you should get full rent and council tax if you are working thay will tell you how much you can afford to pay and they will top up the rest the only problem is you have to be in the property to claim the other way is you can go to the CAB and they will be able to tell you more. but you also have to find a landlord that will accept benifit payments and what i understand is they are hard to come by as benifit pay 4 weeks in arrears which is one of the reasons people on low incomes go to ha first
if you can't afford to pay full rent you can apply and you will have to supply allsorts and the council will means test you and if you meet the criteria then you will get help if your not working and claiming benifits you should get full rent and council tax if you are working thay will tell you how much you can afford to pay and they will top up the rest the only problem is you have to be in the property to claim the other way is you can go to the CAB and they will be able to tell you more. but you also have to find a landlord that will accept benifit payments and what i understand is they are hard to come by as benifit pay 4 weeks in arrears which is one of the reasons people on low incomes go to ha first
Posted by: jack, Borehamwood on 3:14pm Tue 11 Mar 08
Anon, the application letter is like this:
Deer Cownzil,
Me and Shal earn nuffink, but we have 17 kids of witch 11 are mine. we need a 12 bedroom mansion and all our council tax paid.
also, tyson and diesel me two "irish" stafs need food.
we can't afford no bills or nuffink but don't worry coz little wayne has an xbox, playstation 3, broadband, and television. we also have sky - thats a necessity innit though. Once i buy all that stuff me and Shal only have a few quid left for some greasy takeaways and some stella. So we won't hav nuffink left for cownzill tax.
Oh, no.12 is on its way so we may need a bigger free mansion.
its me human rights innit. i'll have 28 kidz if i want innit. sex happens innit.
etc etc and so on.
Anon, the application letter is like this:
Deer Cownzil,
Me and Shal earn nuffink, but we have 17 kids of witch 11 are mine. we need a 12 bedroom mansion and all our council tax paid.
also, tyson and diesel me two "irish" stafs need food.
we can't afford no bills or nuffink but don't worry coz little wayne has an xbox, playstation 3, broadband, and television. we also have sky - thats a necessity innit though. Once i buy all that stuff me and Shal only have a few quid left for some greasy takeaways and some stella. So we won't hav nuffink left for cownzill tax.
Oh, no.12 is on its way so we may need a bigger free mansion.
its me human rights innit. i'll have 28 kidz if i want innit. sex happens innit.
etc etc and so on.
Posted by: k, borehamwood on 3:29pm Tue 11 Mar 08
get over yourself jack you are only entilted to help if you earn less than what the min you need to live if you like you earn the same as you would on benifits so what would you prefer someone out working and getting abit of help or deciding they can get the same amount sitting on their arse with their hand out at least if someone is working and getting a bit of help they might try and do better for themselfs i would love you to live in someone else's shoes for a bit and see if your views are the same and if it was that easy to say i would like 3 children when you get a place so can i have a 3 bed place please i would not be in a 2 bed place you have to wait untill you have the 3 children before you are entitled to it
get over yourself jack you are only entilted to help if you earn less than what the min you need to live if you like you earn the same as you would on benifits so what would you prefer someone out working and getting abit of help or deciding they can get the same amount sitting on their arse with their hand out at least if someone is working and getting a bit of help they might try and do better for themselfs i would love you to live in someone else's shoes for a bit and see if your views are the same and if it was that easy to say i would like 3 children when you get a place so can i have a 3 bed place please i would not be in a 2 bed place you have to wait untill you have the 3 children before you are entitled to it
Posted by: k, borehamwood on 12:45pm Wed 12 Mar 08
Jack please take a look at the sun today and read the story about the man that has had 25k in benifits and only has to pay back £1 that is a sponger for you this is why your tax bill is so high but yet you feel it right that you should have a go at people trying to do things the right way that are paying their tax bill as well.
http://www.thesun.co
.uk/sol/homepage/new
s/justice/article904
358.ece
Jack please take a look at the sun today and read the story about the man that has had 25k in benifits and only has to pay back £1 that is a sponger for you this is why your tax bill is so high but yet you feel it right that you should have a go at people trying to do things the right way that are paying their tax bill as well.
http://www.thesun.co
.uk/sol/homepage/new
s/justice/article904
358.ece
Posted by: jack, borehamwood on 5:23pm Wed 12 Mar 08
K, i am not having a go at you - I just want people to admit that they are taking from the taxpayer and that it is wrong to have too many children that you can't afford. As I said, if everyone has three or four children that they couldn't afford (whether they work or not) where would we all be??????
Obviously there is a distinction between people who work and require assistance and people who simply scrounge.
However, that said, people need to use some sense and not have too many children if they cannot afford to keep them.
I would rather scroungers that don't work at all got nothing, and people who did work got higher benefits to reflect the fact that they are trying.
But, what costs me more - one single scrounger or one worker in a low paid job with 4 kids to support?
I get no benefits, because i earn "too much". yet at the end of the month, after tax, mortgage, council tax, bills, food etc I have no money left. So i am hardly rich.
Why should people on benefits - scroungers or lower paid workers - get more than me? Why should they have enough for a holiday, when I can't afford one, yet I am too rich for benefits.
surely you have to admit that is wrong?
its not black and white, but you have to take a black and white view otherwise it gets out of control.
Do you believe that a couple is entitled to have as many children as they want, when one parent earns £14,000 a year and they clearly can't afford them - remember, that if one family has this right, then all do. and what would happen if everyone took the option? Chaos. Poverty.
K, i am not having a go at you - I just want people to admit that they are taking from the taxpayer and that it is wrong to have too many children that you can't afford. As I said, if everyone has three or four children that they couldn't afford (whether they work or not) where would we all be??????
Obviously there is a distinction between people who work and require assistance and people who simply scrounge.
However, that said, people need to use some sense and not have too many children if they cannot afford to keep them.
I would rather scroungers that don't work at all got nothing, and people who did work got higher benefits to reflect the fact that they are trying.
But, what costs me more - one single scrounger or one worker in a low paid job with 4 kids to support?
I get no benefits, because i earn "too much". yet at the end of the month, after tax, mortgage, council tax, bills, food etc I have no money left. So i am hardly rich.
Why should people on benefits - scroungers or lower paid workers - get more than me? Why should they have enough for a holiday, when I can't afford one, yet I am too rich for benefits.
surely you have to admit that is wrong?
its not black and white, but you have to take a black and white view otherwise it gets out of control.
Do you believe that a couple is entitled to have as many children as they want, when one parent earns £14,000 a year and they clearly can't afford them - remember, that if one family has this right, then all do. and what would happen if everyone took the option? Chaos. Poverty.
Posted by: k, borehamwood on 6:59pm Wed 12 Mar 08
Jack you are having a go at me this letter includes me as i am Junes son's partner and mother to ALL of his children and if you still dont think you are having a go at me go back and read your first comment and some of things you have called my family in the rest of your comments.
We are never going to see eye to eye over this.
I can not say 100% that i am right in saying i am not subsidised but the way i see it i will be paying rent for a lot longer than you are paying for your house and i will never own the property and yet i have payed over what one sells for my choice yes i know but that is the only difference between me and you we both have to pay every other bill as well i understand you having greivences with people sponging as you put it off the tax payers money but i honestly think you are aiming them at the wrong people i see nothing wrong with people having a family as long as they at least try to work to support them and they are looked after and have respect and manners towards others,but saying that there are also those that life throws a spanner in the works and have no choice but to get more help than they would like.
before you found out more about my family you just jumped down our necks little did you know me and my partner have been together since i was 16 that is 10 years yes i was a young mum at 18 but we have had our family payed all our bills for the 8 years we have lived together i see nothing wrong with me asking for a bigger property maybe one day i will be able to afford to go and buy one for myself cos that is another problem with people in ha places some people carry on living in them after they can afford to buy.
Jack you are having a go at me this letter includes me as i am Junes son's partner and mother to ALL of his children and if you still dont think you are having a go at me go back and read your first comment and some of things you have called my family in the rest of your comments.
We are never going to see eye to eye over this.
I can not say 100% that i am right in saying i am not subsidised but the way i see it i will be paying rent for a lot longer than you are paying for your house and i will never own the property and yet i have payed over what one sells for my choice yes i know but that is the only difference between me and you we both have to pay every other bill as well i understand you having greivences with people sponging as you put it off the tax payers money but i honestly think you are aiming them at the wrong people i see nothing wrong with people having a family as long as they at least try to work to support them and they are looked after and have respect and manners towards others,but saying that there are also those that life throws a spanner in the works and have no choice but to get more help than they would like.
before you found out more about my family you just jumped down our necks little did you know me and my partner have been together since i was 16 that is 10 years yes i was a young mum at 18 but we have had our family payed all our bills for the 8 years we have lived together i see nothing wrong with me asking for a bigger property maybe one day i will be able to afford to go and buy one for myself cos that is another problem with people in ha places some people carry on living in them after they can afford to buy.
Posted by: stuart, borehamwood on 12:50am Fri 14 Mar 08
A house costs upwards of £200,000 . Who can afford that . Thats the problem . The Goverment make the rules , Blame the Politicians they are All Rich . We are the Mugs because they are Robbers .
Dont blame ordinary people who live in a council house . Name One Labour Member of Parliament who lives in a Council House .
A house costs upwards of £200,000 . Who can afford that . Thats the problem . The Goverment make the rules , Blame the Politicians they are All Rich . We are the Mugs because they are Robbers .
Dont blame ordinary people who live in a council house . Name One Labour Member of Parliament who lives in a Council House .
Posted by: Barney, Borehamwood on 12:14pm Sat 15 Mar 08
Jack, some facts on the matter.
If you buy a property using a mortgage, lets say a 25 year repayment mortgage, you will end up having paid roughly twice the amount borrowed back over 25 years.
"i am sure that if i pay rent for the next 50 years i will of payed the ha what my flat is worth on the market just i will not own it myself." What an interest rate that would be!! Can I have the same?
Jack, don't allow yourself to get irate o9n the situation as with a bit of luck these Inbreds flats will not be ground floor and with luck they will jump out of their windows head 1st.
Jack you have my respect.
Jack, some facts on the matter.
If you buy a property using a mortgage, lets say a 25 year repayment mortgage, you will end up having paid roughly twice the amount borrowed back over 25 years.
"i am sure that if i pay rent for the next 50 years i will of payed the ha what my flat is worth on the market just i will not own it myself." What an interest rate that would be!! Can I have the same?
Jack, don't allow yourself to get irate o9n the situation as with a bit of luck these Inbreds flats will not be ground floor and with luck they will jump out of their windows head 1st.
Jack you have my respect.
Posted by: k, borehamwood on 12:43pm Sat 15 Mar 08
Barney what is the need of you getting nasty with your words you have your views and i respect that but there is no need to go back to your school days with your playground behavior.
as i have said what makes you better than me just because i dont own my property?is that all i have done to be called an inbred,scrounger, sponger and a beggar? because that is the only thing that is different.
Barney what is the need of you getting nasty with your words you have your views and i respect that but there is no need to go back to your school days with your playground behavior.
as i have said what makes you better than me just because i dont own my property?is that all i have done to be called an inbred,scrounger, sponger and a beggar? because that is the only thing that is different.
Posted by: Barney, Borehamwood on 8:28pm Sun 16 Mar 08
[quote][bold]k[/bold] wrote:
Barney what is the need of you getting nasty with your words you have your views and i respect that but there is no need to go back to your school days with your playground behavior.
as i have said what makes you better than me just because i dont own my property?is that all i have done to be called an inbred,scrounger, sponger and a beggar? because that is the only thing that is different. [/quote] k, I think maybe you need to go back to school, get a proper job, stop sponging and defending the undefendable!
k wrote:
Barney what is the need of you getting nasty with your words you have your views and i respect that but there is no need to go back to your school days with your playground behavior.
as i have said what makes you better than me just because i dont own my property?is that all i have done to be called an inbred,scrounger, sponger and a beggar? because that is the only thing that is different.
k, I think maybe you need to go back to school, get a proper job, stop sponging and defending the undefendable!
Posted by: k, borehamwood on 11:25pm Sun 16 Mar 08
I wouldn't defend myself if i could undersand what i have done that is so wrong. Tell you what Barney you get on with your perfect life that i don't know about and i will get on with my life that you know very little about but still think you can judge me on.
I wouldn't defend myself if i could undersand what i have done that is so wrong. Tell you what Barney you get on with your perfect life that i don't know about and i will get on with my life that you know very little about but still think you can judge me on.
Posted by: Barney, Borehamwood on 1:57pm Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote][bold]jack[/bold] wrote:
Anon, the application letter is like this: Deer Cownzil, Me and Shal earn nuffink, but we have 17 kids of witch 11 are mine. we need a 12 bedroom mansion and all our council tax paid. also, tyson and diesel me two "irish" stafs need food. we can't afford no bills or nuffink but don't worry coz little wayne has an xbox, playstation 3, broadband, and television. we also have sky - thats a necessity innit though. Once i buy all that stuff me and Shal only have a few quid left for some greasy takeaways and some stella. So we won't hav nuffink left for cownzill tax. Oh, no.12 is on its way so we may need a bigger free mansion. its me human rights innit. i'll have 28 kidz if i want innit. sex happens innit. etc etc and so on. [/quote] Jack, I found this hilarious on one hand, but upsettingly accurate on the other.
jack wrote:
Anon, the application letter is like this: Deer Cownzil, Me and Shal earn nuffink, but we have 17 kids of witch 11 are mine. we need a 12 bedroom mansion and all our council tax paid. also, tyson and diesel me two "irish" stafs need food. we can't afford no bills or nuffink but don't worry coz little wayne has an xbox, playstation 3, broadband, and television. we also have sky - thats a necessity innit though. Once i buy all that stuff me and Shal only have a few quid left for some greasy takeaways and some stella. So we won't hav nuffink left for cownzill tax. Oh, no.12 is on its way so we may need a bigger free mansion. its me human rights innit. i'll have 28 kidz if i want innit. sex happens innit. etc etc and so on.
Jack, I found this hilarious on one hand, but upsettingly accurate on the other.
Posted by: E,, POTTERS BAR on 10:11pm Mon 17 Mar 08
i work full time and so does my partner we have 2 children and have baby no3 on the way ,we pay full rent we dont have any benifits ,so because we will need a 3 bed soon that makes us scrongers ,its the people who dont pay rent what are the scrongers and beggers and im with K on this i totally agree ,if we what to have loads of children then we will if people like jack and barney dont like it then go and live somewhere else maybe in another country when they say me have no money ,me need a car ,me need a house ,if you dont like what other people do with their lives then just deal with it ,is it affecting your family ?? didnt think so !!!!!
i work full time and so does my partner we have 2 children and have baby no3 on the way ,we pay full rent we dont have any benifits ,so because we will need a 3 bed soon that makes us scrongers ,its the people who dont pay rent what are the scrongers and beggers and im with K on this i totally agree ,if we what to have loads of children then we will if people like jack and barney dont like it then go and live somewhere else maybe in another country when they say me have no money ,me need a car ,me need a house ,if you dont like what other people do with their lives then just deal with it ,is it affecting your family ?? didnt think so !!!!!
Posted by: barney, borehamwood on 11:14pm Mon 17 Mar 08
E, do you rent through the council? If so do you mind saying how much you pay?
Regards
E, do you rent through the council? If so do you mind saying how much you pay?
Regards
Posted by: vicky pollard, london on 11:54am Tue 18 Mar 08
ha ha ha ive got 6 kids by 6 different dads,i have a phat lcd tv, 3 staffs hundreds of dvds, cds etc and guess what jack and the rest of u mugs?yes u r paying for it all and i love it coz there is absolutly nothing u or anyone can do about it!!!why dont u go live in africa where they have no benefit system. they just let people starve to death init.much luv 2 u tax payers x x x x x
ha ha ha ive got 6 kids by 6 different dads,i have a phat lcd tv, 3 staffs hundreds of dvds, cds etc and guess what jack and the rest of u mugs?yes u r paying for it all and i love it coz there is absolutly nothing u or anyone can do about it!!!why dont u go live in africa where they have no benefit system. they just let people starve to death init.much luv 2 u tax payers x x x x x
Posted by: Moira, Borehamwood on 11:14am Fri 21 Mar 08
OK.
Now I understand.
Jack has time on his hands and a spirit akin to Victor Meldrew.
There I was, so upset at the horrible assumptions he and others made about my family because of an (edited down) letter I had published last week.
I am relieved to discover this thread.
Jack I actually agree with you on many things. But I have family involved in charity work and I myself have lived abroad and seen many people worse off than myself.
I pray that your foundations - mortgage, safe investments, hard-earned cash - keep you warm in your old age.
If you lose eveything - and this DOES happen - I hope you meet slightly more sensitive people than you are, and even if you are stuck with someone like me to lean on when in need - I hope I will never throw back at you all the callous and judgemental remarks you throw about so freely.
God bless you Jack.
But He'll bless you more if you are more willing to share what He has given you already to ease another's burden - whether you understand it or not.
Happy Easter to you.
OK.
Now I understand.
Jack has time on his hands and a spirit akin to Victor Meldrew.
There I was, so upset at the horrible assumptions he and others made about my family because of an (edited down) letter I had published last week.
I am relieved to discover this thread.
Jack I actually agree with you on many things. But I have family involved in charity work and I myself have lived abroad and seen many people worse off than myself.
I pray that your foundations - mortgage, safe investments, hard-earned cash - keep you warm in your old age.
If you lose eveything - and this DOES happen - I hope you meet slightly more sensitive people than you are, and even if you are stuck with someone like me to lean on when in need - I hope I will never throw back at you all the callous and judgemental remarks you throw about so freely.
God bless you Jack.
But He'll bless you more if you are more willing to share what He has given you already to ease another's burden - whether you understand it or not.
Happy Easter to you.
Posted by: Barney, Borehamwood on 10:24pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Moira,
You have a great point, after all, we are all brothers and sisters in Christ.
I think its only fair that we get together at the end of the month and share equally what we all have. If you want to work or not, its up to you because we'll all get the same. How wonderful and Christian.
Moira,
You have a great point, after all, we are all brothers and sisters in Christ.
I think its only fair that we get together at the end of the month and share equally what we all have. If you want to work or not, its up to you because we'll all get the same. How wonderful and Christian.
Posted by: Moira, borehamwood on 11:47pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Hey Barney,
I have a job - though mine is unpaid. It is a job with no training, and absolutely no gratitude. It is never finished, and the product(if good) is never recognised as my work (if bad though I will be expected to take the consequences).
Years ago I sold mortgages for a living. Just one of many different jobs I have been fortunate enough to undertake over many years. For that job which involved chatting on the phone all day, getting taken out to dinner, or having it repaid to me as expenses, buying flashy clothes and generally doing less than an hours real work in a week, I regularly took home £200 clear. To "earn" this all I had to do was enslave young couples (sometimes 17 and 18 year olds) into bonded indenture to 25 (sometimes 30) year mortgages - usually in the full knowledge that they wouldn't be able to pay for long, and would lose not only their mortgage, but their house and their creditworthiness.
I earn nothing now doing a much worthier job - and sleep better at night.
What do you think your taxes are for? Why are you happy for them to be used in schools? In the end of the day - we are all - financially or otherwise- investing in the next generation. If we are lucky they won't do to us, what we do to our elders - leave them to rot or be euthanased in homes or alone. I know my children will fight against that, and poverty, and oppression - not in demonstrations or strikes - but in their careers and social responsibilities.
And actually yes - I do share with others whether they work or not. I was taught to give alms whenever you are asked - and to give until it hurts. That is what I usually try to do.
Hey Barney,
I have a job - though mine is unpaid. It is a job with no training, and absolutely no gratitude. It is never finished, and the product(if good) is never recognised as my work (if bad though I will be expected to take the consequences).
Years ago I sold mortgages for a living. Just one of many different jobs I have been fortunate enough to undertake over many years. For that job which involved chatting on the phone all day, getting taken out to dinner, or having it repaid to me as expenses, buying flashy clothes and generally doing less than an hours real work in a week, I regularly took home £200 clear. To "earn" this all I had to do was enslave young couples (sometimes 17 and 18 year olds) into bonded indenture to 25 (sometimes 30) year mortgages - usually in the full knowledge that they wouldn't be able to pay for long, and would lose not only their mortgage, but their house and their creditworthiness.
I earn nothing now doing a much worthier job - and sleep better at night.
What do you think your taxes are for? Why are you happy for them to be used in schools? In the end of the day - we are all - financially or otherwise- investing in the next generation. If we are lucky they won't do to us, what we do to our elders - leave them to rot or be euthanased in homes or alone. I know my children will fight against that, and poverty, and oppression - not in demonstrations or strikes - but in their careers and social responsibilities.
And actually yes - I do share with others whether they work or not. I was taught to give alms whenever you are asked - and to give until it hurts. That is what I usually try to do.
Posted by: G. Brown, Number 10 on 11:30am Wed 26 Mar 08
You guys, stop bickering on the net and go out and get a bloody job, you scroungers! I'm sitting here at work, drinking coffee and playing tetris and earning 125K a year just to fund you spongers!
You guys, stop bickering on the net and go out and get a bloody job, you scroungers! I'm sitting here at work, drinking coffee and playing tetris and earning 125K a year just to fund you spongers!
Posted by: Barney, Borehamwood on 5:03pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Moira[/bold] wrote:
Hey Barney, I have a job - though mine is unpaid. It is a job with no training, and absolutely no gratitude. It is never finished, and the product(if good) is never recognised as my work (if bad though I will be expected to take the consequences). Years ago I sold mortgages for a living. Just one of many different jobs I have been fortunate enough to undertake over many years. For that job which involved chatting on the phone all day, getting taken out to dinner, or having it repaid to me as expenses, buying flashy clothes and generally doing less than an hours real work in a week, I regularly took home £200 clear. To "earn" this all I had to do was enslave young couples (sometimes 17 and 18 year olds) into bonded indenture to 25 (sometimes 30) year mortgages - usually in the full knowledge that they wouldn't be able to pay for long, and would lose not only their mortgage, but their house and their creditworthiness. I earn nothing now doing a much worthier job - and sleep better at night. What do you think your taxes are for? Why are you happy for them to be used in schools? In the end of the day - we are all - financially or otherwise- investing in the next generation. If we are lucky they won't do to us, what we do to our elders - leave them to rot or be euthanased in homes or alone. I know my children will fight against that, and poverty, and oppression - not in demonstrations or strikes - but in their careers and social responsibilities. And actually yes - I do share with others whether they work or not. I was taught to give alms whenever you are asked - and to give until it hurts. That is what I usually try to do.[/quote] Moira,
Wow, you talk a lot about nothing. Sorry, I never quite worked out what your job was but I enjoyed the riddle.
Thanks, got any more.
Moira wrote:
Hey Barney, I have a job - though mine is unpaid. It is a job with no training, and absolutely no gratitude. It is never finished, and the product(if good) is never recognised as my work (if bad though I will be expected to take the consequences). Years ago I sold mortgages for a living. Just one of many different jobs I have been fortunate enough to undertake over many years. For that job which involved chatting on the phone all day, getting taken out to dinner, or having it repaid to me as expenses, buying flashy clothes and generally doing less than an hours real work in a week, I regularly took home £200 clear. To "earn" this all I had to do was enslave young couples (sometimes 17 and 18 year olds) into bonded indenture to 25 (sometimes 30) year mortgages - usually in the full knowledge that they wouldn't be able to pay for long, and would lose not only their mortgage, but their house and their creditworthiness. I earn nothing now doing a much worthier job - and sleep better at night. What do you think your taxes are for? Why are you happy for them to be used in schools? In the end of the day - we are all - financially or otherwise- investing in the next generation. If we are lucky they won't do to us, what we do to our elders - leave them to rot or be euthanased in homes or alone. I know my children will fight against that, and poverty, and oppression - not in demonstrations or strikes - but in their careers and social responsibilities. And actually yes - I do share with others whether they work or not. I was taught to give alms whenever you are asked - and to give until it hurts. That is what I usually try to do.
Moira,
Wow, you talk a lot about nothing. Sorry, I never quite worked out what your job was but I enjoyed the riddle.
Thanks, got any more.
Posted by: John Paul, HM Revenue & Customs on 5:14pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Moira you are obviously doing your job now because you feel you have to make amends after fiddling your taxable income, and putting helpless young people into thankless positions. That wasn't very responsible was it. What other jobs did you have, Dr's receptionist for Dr Shipman?
Not your fault though is it. Good mentality.
Thanks for the insight. I've just quit my job from your response. It touched me!!
Moira you are obviously doing your job now because you feel you have to make amends after fiddling your taxable income, and putting helpless young people into thankless positions. That wasn't very responsible was it. What other jobs did you have, Dr's receptionist for Dr Shipman?
Not your fault though is it. Good mentality.
Thanks for the insight. I've just quit my job from your response. It touched me!!
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